Consult the judges

Corr, your response was logical and completely agreeable. If I read everything correctly, the opinion was something along the lines of...

[quote:mltdecfy]Deflection: Possible, but difficult due to the kinetic energy.

Absorption: Not possible.[/quote:mltdecfy]

If that's the case, I'll get writing on the proper response. I probably wouldn't have absorbed the lightning myself, but I kinda wanted to be doubly sure and have the question asked for future reference if the situation comes up again.

Thanks guys.

Exactly. Kinetic energy will rock the blade. Remember the heat and electrical. Its possible you'd get a "Splashback" from such a deflection, depending on where on the sword its deflected from. Near the tip may avoid the heat and static but would make the kinetic "jolt" more apparent. Opposite produces different problem in that you could minimise the kinetic but may get your hands burned/zapped.

Note that the above is only how I'd write it. Its my opinion not a statement of fact. Another judge may see it different but I think is safe to say that your summary is accurate.

Thanks you for flying Duel-Corr. Hope you lose a limb... or don't...

On the subject of charrics and gba legality;

I feel that these weapons are easily considered on par with, if not more dangerous than rail tech. The electrical pulse makes armor worthless, it can't rightly be blocked, and as just witnessed, (my condolences, Kruor,) they sort of take the need for skill out of a fight when you're armed with one.

Thoughts?

Are you saying that I have no skill, Nibelung? Because I have to say, that insinuation is rather insulting. The skill of a character cannot always be measured by how many lightsaber forms or force powers they've mastered. Skill with a firearm is just as viable as skill with a lightsaber.

As for the charric being an overpowered weapon, I'm afraid I must strongly disagree. All that is necessary to block a charric blast is a tighter grip and a braced stance. It is certainly more difficult than blocking a blaster bolt, but far from impossible. With regards to the electrical charge, it's hardly enough to kill on its own. Would it be painful and distracting? Certainly; but nothing more than that. A suit of good metal armor will still prevent the bolt from burning through your vital organs.

The danger of rail tech is that their combination of projectile speed, size, and visibility makes them nigh-impossible to block or avoid, and with that in mind I would point out that in our duel, Darth Kruor completely (and legitimately) avoided thirteen charric bolts, and blocked a fourteenth. That would hardly have been possible with an overpowered, unblockable weapon.

On an offshoot topic, if charrics are going to be banned for being difficult to block then you will also need to ban slugthrowers, scatterguns, flamethrowers, sonic blasters, and arc weapons.

I'd rather not have our duel itself brought up in the argument, and I think it'd be best if the situation itself was dropped until a later date. I'm sure the GBA judges will consider what's been said and confer amongst themselves. I doubt that the charrics will be banned or restricted, as even I can see their legitimacy in combat situations, however frustrating it is to try and go up against them (not a cut at you, Trask - it's no different than going up against someone with a particularly powerful Force Power or other weapon).

Just wanted to try and cut this off before tempers flared. The GBA is good at what it does - now that the situation has been brought to their attention, I'm sure they'll respond appropriately.

I said they take the the need for skill out of a fight. Take that as you will.

I strongly disagree that a weapon that causes damage enough to blast chunks out of concrete which is coupled with an electrical charge that renders armor useless is not overpowered. It is of a level with disruptor technology, which is just as banned as rail tech, despite being avoidable.

And if you're unlucky enough not to be wearing armor, the damage it causes is both neural, as electricity would fry nerve endings, as well as immensely physical, ripping layers of flesh away, scouring muscle, breaking bone. A normal blaster round or a round from a slugthrower just isnt on that level.

Also, scatterguns are illegal, slughthrowers can be evaded or mostly mitigated by armor, flamethrowers are close range weapons at best and have a low ratio of critical damage as they are easily evaded or counteracted, and sonic weaponry, well, I completely agree with you, and could stand to see that go, too.

I do not argue that the person using the charric is unskilled, merely that the weapon itself is one that has no place in a competitive environment. If you can have two pistols with that level of firepower raining that much of it down at once, you're absolutely guaranteed victory.

I can see one charric, maybe, despite my obvious disdain for the weapon, but that many at once is overkill. At least a limitation on the tech.

Like Kruor said, its been noted and will be discussed. I'd have to say that I don't think they should be banned but should be up to the writer to adequately limit the weapon sufficiently. My concern with stated, though I don't want to bring said duel into this, is the number of shots a charric can fire. Fourteen seems excessive but I'd have to researched the weapon more to know if that is illegal or legal. Fourteen from one charric just seems a lot and I'd rather see them as a six-shooter type of affair. But again, that's neither here nor there for now.

To be honest, and as for the end of Nibe's post, I'd rather see ALL projectiles frowned upon in the GBA. Its not really a duel with firearms, but again that's my preference.

As judges we will be quick to call into question instances of PGing or unfairness that we see as pertinent to an outcome of a duel. If there is such an instance trust us to note it and factor it into our decisions.

All these points will be looked at and discussed. This is the kind of thing the thread is for imo and thank you all for your input.

Perhaps if you wish to disallow battle in the galactic battle arena in favor of dueling, then the establishment should be renamed to suit that focus and those of us who do not regularly make use of melee weapons can simply stick to in-uni combat.

With regards to Nibelung's concerns, I believe he is significantly overplaying the power of a charric. The DC-15A blaster rifle is capable of blasting a half meter hole in a ferroconcrete wall (a substance more durable than normal concrete) at high power, and its blaster gas cartridge holds enough gas for three hundred of these shots. At best, my charric rifle would leave a six inch hole in such a wall, and it holds only enough gas for two hundred shots. That is significantly less straight-up firepower than that possessed by a "normal" repeating blaster (which is understandable, given my rifle's smaller size).

Your concerns about the electrical component are also overstated, as the electrical discharge is specifically said to occur only on contact with metal armor, so I can only assume it is generated by the interaction of the bolt with metal surfaces, and as such would not be a component of the bolt were it to strike an unarmored opponent. If it were, however, it would hardly be the brain-frying pulse you seem to suspect. At most it would be similar to a jolt from a fairly powerful electric fence. Painful and distracting, certainly, but far less than the pain caused by the thermal component (a component also possessed by any blaster of comparable size). When striking the soft tissue of an unarmored opponent, the kinetic force of the bolt very nearly becomes a non-issue, as it is overshadowed by the aforementioned thermal damage that would be burning it's way through the target's body (and again, this same thermal damage is possessed by blasters).

The only area where the kinetic and electrical damage have any significant effect is when striking metal armor (though with less force than a large caliber slugthrower of similar size, and with only enough electrical charge to be painfully distracting), and when striking a lightsaber blade (being somewhat more difficult to block than a normal blaster, but far from impossible).


In conclusion, this debate is showing me that users of ranged weapons are more often than not unwelcome in the GBA, so if you wish to only host duels and those of us who utilize primarily ranged weapons rather than melee are no longer wanted, then I will simply leave you to your business and conduct mine elsewhere.

Nerve damage doesn't necessarily have to be brain damage. The electrical component of the burst still exists when there is no armor involved, as is inherent to the artillery. Maser tech is like that. And while flesh and concrete are entirely different substances, that kind of impact doesn't exactly play favorites just because its one or the other. If anything, the thermal damage exacerbates the damage even more than I originally thought.

I think that Corr also made it clear that he was stating his opinion explicitly on ranged weaponry. Please try to conduct yourself with a bit less ire regarding the issue, as I'm more interested in looking out for fairness between duelists than discussing personal issues. I have no problem with you, sir, and as far as Corr is concerned, I have heard nothing from him indicating otherwise. He is simply addressing issues as is his duty as a GBA judge.

Now, if you would like to present further information regarding the charrics, feel free to do so- I am completely open to seeing a full explanation of the tech and, if possible, a way to make it optimally friendly to the GBA.

As it stands, I have seen compelling evidence that it is a very "point and click" weapon, as it were.

Thank you for your help, mister Vhett.

Just my opinion Trask. A duel usually wouldn't involve ranged weapons but I've had fun with blasters and such in duels. Frowned upon was the wrong term perhaps. Blasters have their places in battles of course. I just like a good old fashioned fist fight or sword play.

Trask, don't let peoples opinions reflect the GBA as a whole. That is as unfair as it being stated that you have little skill due to your use of a charric. Neither are true and I'd ask that you do not colour the GBA with comments caused by people merely stating their opinion. I never once said that ranged weapons are disallowed or are frowned upon by the GBA as a whole. I was just stating a preference of mine. MY OWN. It reflects to me, and that's only to me, bad form on your part to have what seems, again by me, to be a gripe against the GBA over such things.

Your arguments for the charric are sound and as long as they're written that way then I see no issue. It will be discussed and decided upon. All played comments will be welcomed and taken into consideration, though I cant see much being changed as has already been stated here.

Again, like to confirm what Nide said. Thanks.

[quote="Nibelung Serge":o0owjj02]On the subject of charrics and gba legality;

I feel that these weapons are easily considered on par with, if not more dangerous than rail tech. The electrical pulse makes armor worthless, it can't rightly be blocked, and as just witnessed, (my condolences, Kruor,) they sort of take the need for skill out of a fight when you're armed with one.

Thoughts?[/quote:o0owjj02]

I'm NOT going to wade into the discussions on how a charric interacts with a sith sword...the verdict changes depending on which set of judges you ask, with outcomes changing from one duel to the next. Without definitive data, its honestly open to interpretation.

As a charric user, and a staunch supporter of the weapon, Id like to weight in with my opinion as both player and councilor. Firstly, these weapons are not even in the same TIER as rail tech. Rail tech is essentially a single shot, unblockable, undodgeable shot capable of instantaneously transferring massive amounts of kinetic energy to a singular point. In otherwords, a instagib. First, a charric bolt travels no faster nor no slower than a blaster bolt - I honestly cant track how many times I've had opponents dodge, out track my barrel, or outright out maneuver my shooting. There's plenty of time to react to the bolt itself, giving an opponent a fair amount of time to work with it - negating the argument of a "unblockable bolt" concept.

The electrical pulse is only relevant against METALLIC armor - and if someones wearing a nice insulating body suit, it doesnt do much. At most, it's a moderate shock, dealing some nice extra side damage ontop of its normal damage. We're not talking lightning bolts, but electric fences. The thermal energy CAN be troublesome, but its honestly less than that of a regular blaster - and nothing over powered in of itself. The true power of the charric is the kinetic energy - the energy in the bolt is concentrated enough to rip a saber out of a normal humans hands, and additionally, cannot be deflected by a lightsaber. That by no means makes it unblockable or unbeatable. A GOOD duelist will learn how to deal with the effect to their advantage - I once had a rather skilled duelist utilize the kinetic energy of a bolt and convert it into a 360 degree spinning slash. rodder pegged me on my arm. It's a matter of SKILL in handling the effect of an opponents weapon - especially specialized weapons such as charrics.

My two cents. If you want to continue this discussion, PM me - I'm trying to stay out of here due to a conflict of interests and bias.


- Dante

Just one question. Is the ground where me and Mortale are fighting have any metal in it?

mortale-vs-garwig-p1943667.html#p1943667

That is a good question, and to be honest I think it is up to the players in the arena. I know is what I was thinking about for an arena perhaps one of the other judges can say something but if not and it has not been stated by either of you then go for it.

As a judge who almost exclusively used ranged weapons these days, I have to say that I've received no flak for my preference. Also, I'll blast anyone who sends up said flak. In the face. With a bantha.

If everyone could sit back, take a few deep breaths and relax for a minute, the judges will get back to you. We have a wide range of experiences and opinions, so I think it's safe to say that we can probably hash out something fair.

In the mean time, the thread will remain open for discussion on the grounds that you play nice so I don't have to break out the bantha.

I can tell you right now in no uncertain terms, that Ranged weapons have never been, nor will ever be, frowned upon in the GBA. I dont like to use them with Inks, but I enjoy them with Ash. Sometimes. Its a personal thing. I believe that ranged weapons makes those that don't use them have to think harder to get around being shot in the face. it adds an element of tactics to a fight. Which I enjoy.

If you honestly believe that there is a bias, please feel free to PM me and we can discuss it.

[quote="Xeonon Solomon":3xzcgpin]That is a good question, and to be honest I think it is up to the players in the arena. I know [url=http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/5774/2054486-originaltournament.jpg:3xzcgpin]this[/url:3xzcgpin] is what I was thinking about for an arena perhaps one of the other judges can say something but if not and it has not been stated by either of you then go for it.[/quote:3xzcgpin]

Understood.

Xeo is correct. There is no metal in the floor.

[quote="Dace Concordia":dte6tl88]Xeo is correct. There is no metal in the floor.[/quote:dte6tl88]

In that case, I might have to repost then.

If I could have a couple of judges PM me. That would be appreciated.

Can one of the judges PM me.

Want to clarify something.

Gracious.