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Business Regs


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Post Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:52 am

Re: Business Regs

Agreed.

What's your input on my question Cipher?
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Post Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:09 pm

Re: Business Regs

[quote="Atlantis Vyridian":1z433brd][color=#00BFFF:1z433brd]Considering that the canon company has recently been approved by the PGC with Taung as its 50% holder of the company, what happens if you get full control of the planet, quite simple actually, since canon company are supposed to be neutral and shouldn't have so to speak officially an affiliation then the company will stay there with Taung as its steward.

No one needs to have full control of the planet to continue to run that company once registered. Still 50% of the profit will go to the people/ planetary government and after all of that, it's all up to your creativity of either you want to keep working this in your favor, (ie someone running the company on that planet that is neutral and therefore is in the obligation to accept every order from people), or you come up with a proposal.[/color:1z433brd]

[quote="[url=http://www.jedivsith.com/viewtopic.php?p=1875638#p1875638:1z433brd]FAQ[/url:1z433brd]":1z433brd]Canon businesses are those businesses which already exist in the canon SW universe. Canon businesses must be located on their canon planet. Canon businesses can be 50% owned by a PC, but 50% ownership is reserved for the planetary government. [color=#FFFF00:1z433brd][b:1z433brd]If you are the planetary controller, you may RP control of the company[/b:1z433brd][/color:1z433brd], or if you are the half owner and approved by the planetary controller (controller because planets aren't owned), then you can RP the company without controlling the planet.[/quote:1z433brd]

[color=#00BFFF:1z433brd]Proposal inferring that you want to buy his shares or whatever, that kind of business deal. But either way, the company will still belong to Taung by 50%. Since you weren't the planetary controller prior to Taung's ownership, then you have no influence at all concerning Sienar - at least directly -.[/color:1z433brd][/quote:1z433brd]

Yes, so my question then is this: If a planetary controller is allowed to collect 50% share of profits (cutting the business owner's own profits to the company in the process) is it also permissible for someone to say that they also have access to the facilities?
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Post Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: Business Regs

[color=#00BFFF:7ktu3x3j]Bacca, actually Constanza Vinti has it all right there, in her response. But considering that you want councilors input, then I will go over your questions step by step, so we can reach an understanding.[/color:7ktu3x3j]

[quote="Innon'Ruuk":7ktu3x3j]If, for example, a planet controller who has registered businesses on the planet they control is attacked and ousted from the planet, ousted player would retain 50% of business profits for the registered businesses. Considering player is no longer located on the planet (ousted), how does the registered businesses get managed, and who has production rights - whose responsibility is the selling and marketing of the products and the various business dealings? Is that up to the new planet controller or the ousted 50%shareholder?

The business will still be managed by the one that has registered it. It is the one that has registered it that will continue to manage and keep selling/ marketing those products unless it falls into abandonment after 8 weeks.

Case in point, still the ousted 50% shareholder.

Do registered businesses no longer require any security or defense systems as nobody can ever take them away?

[color=#00BFFF:7ktu3x3j]Businesses are supposed to be neutral, you will do more harm than good for destroying that. Sure you can do some lobbying if you want. But realistically if that business is an important or prominent one, why would you want to destroy it? It is all about RP mechanics at this point. You get wind of who orders and when those products are engineered and when they are delivered. You can sabotage that so that those ships never reach their destination. Like Constanza said, it's all about writing a story and not just stopping at this or that profit anymore or who controls what or when.

After, it's all up to however you want to play a story out, just question this. When you stand in front of NASA and try to get in, but you don't have the clearances? What does happen there? You are told to step away, you can't go in there. Security and defense systems are still there.[/color:7ktu3x3j]

Why would a player invade or attempt to gain control of a planet for any other reason than to gain control of its profitable businesses and resources? What would motivate invasions?

What will motivate controllers of planets to fight for continued control when all registered businesses are not at risk ever?

[color=#00BFFF:7ktu3x3j]Look above, sabotage, knowing exactly who orders what, trying to find via IC means. Being "on site" so to speak will be easier to attain some information.[/color:7ktu3x3j]

Players interested in gaining control of a planet, should first apply to register canon businesses located there to have an advantage over the planet's controller and anybody who happens to notice a player registering businesses on a planet they do not control, would be fair in assuming that player may have attack plans underway.

[color=#00BFFF:7ktu3x3j]If someone tries to apply for a canon business that is located on this or that planet "controlled" by someone/ faction, we will ask if the one registering it asked for permission first and foremost and assuming that a player may have attack plans underway? Like I have said, the businesses are neutral but you can assume whatever you want as long as all information from your standpoint is something that you have gained IC and not OOC.[/color:7ktu3x3j][/quote:7ktu3x3j]

[color=#00BFFF:7ktu3x3j]After all, all I can tell you, it's no longer about profits or funds, it's all about the RP, we will question the legitimacy of the RP first and foremost and not the profits here and there.[/color:7ktu3x3j]



[quote="Aajax":7ktu3x3j]Yes, so my question then is this: If a planetary controller is allowed to collect 50% share of profits (cutting the business owner's own profits to the company in the process) is it also permissible for someone to say that they also have access to the facilities?[/quote:7ktu3x3j]

[color=#00BFFF:7ktu3x3j]Those 50% will never go to the "planetary controller" so to speak, they will vanish into thin air, it is for the population (NPC) those 50% are forms of taxes and tariffs for being there on their soil. It was never meant to be for factions or the planetary controller per se. After, we will keep saying over and over again that everything is about RP, things are permissible and as long as it stays in the norm, then yes but whoever accessed those facilities to try and steal the blueprints of the canon products of the company, that is a no. We are keeping those canon businesses in the original states for now but if you want to go in there (infiltrate, etc...) to sabotage a few things and try to gain some information or implant some bugs on this or that spaceship because you have come to know who ordered that, then yes go for it.

It is all about writing a story, RPing. Your choice really however you want to play all of those things out.[/color:7ktu3x3j]
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Post Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:47 pm

Re: Business Regs

I'm more confused now.

Atlantis, than you for trying to explain this to me, I'm sorry I don't get it.
Maybe you could take a peek in the Clarification topic and help me there.
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Post Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: Business Regs

[quote="Atlantis Vyridian":3dotza2g]
[color=#00BFFF:3dotza2g]Those 50% will never go to the "planetary controller" so to speak, they will vanish into thin air, it is for the population (NPC) those 50% are forms of taxes and tariffs for being there on their soil. It was never meant to be for factions or the planetary controller per se. After, we will keep saying over and over again that everything is about RP, things are permissible and as long as it stays in the norm, then yes but whoever accessed those facilities to try and steal the blueprints of the canon products of the company, that is a no. We are keeping those canon businesses in the original states for now but if you want to go in there (infiltrate, etc...) to sabotage a few things and try to gain some information or implant some bugs on this or that spaceship because you have come to know who ordered that, then yes go for it.

It is all about writing a story, RPing. Your choice really however you want to play all of those things out.[/color:3dotza2g][/quote:3dotza2g]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but I'm confused.
Why state a "50% ownership" if the true fact is that the player who registers the business is REALLY 100% owner?

I say so in the fact that they have:
[list:3dotza2g][*:3dotza2g] Full creative control over the way the business is RPed.[/*:m:3dotza2g]
[*:3dotza2g] They are the only people to collect from revenue on the company.[/*:m:3dotza2g]
[*:3dotza2g] They are the only ones able to design or benifit from designs from said company.[/*:m:3dotza2g][/list:u:3dotza2g]
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:07 am

Re: Business Regs

[quote="Innon'Ruuk":ts97ffk8]I'm more confused now.

Atlantis, than you for trying to explain this to me, I'm sorry I don't get it.
Maybe you could take a peek in the Clarification topic and help me there.[/quote:ts97ffk8]

[color=#00BFFF:ts97ffk8]I will certainly take a look but you will have to tell me exactly which parts you are confused about to begin with, so we can start there?[/color:ts97ffk8]

[quote="Kyrjaa Sisk":ts97ffk8]I'm sorry for interrupting, but I'm confused.
Why state a "50% ownership" if the true fact is that the player who registers the business is REALLY 100% owner?

I say so in the fact that they have:
[list:ts97ffk8][*:ts97ffk8] Full creative control over the way the business is RPed.[/*:m:ts97ffk8]
[*:ts97ffk8] They are the only people to collect from revenue on the company.[/*:m:ts97ffk8]
[*:ts97ffk8] They are the only ones able to design or benifit from designs from said company.[/*:m:ts97ffk8][/list:u:ts97ffk8][/quote:ts97ffk8]

[color=#00BFFF:ts97ffk8]Full creative control over the way the business is RPed? In which aspects really? Over the fact that they can engineer this type of ship? Why stopping yourself there when you very well could influence certain parts of production? Just an idea. You can influence the finishing touches once those spaceships are done being constructed. Again just an idea.

Is this what it is all really about? Being able to collect that other 50% because you feel that even as a planetary controller with perhaps not even RPing (or helping) that business jointly with the one that has registered it.

They are not the only ones benefiting from designs from said company because again like I have said, everyone and anyone can order there and benefiting from those designs by getting the craft that way. The moment they sell their shares, their 50% they give all of their rights. What I see there is a potential RP, the negotiation it entails, and all that I see here is people staying on the game mechanics and not trying to creatively find a way to influence this or that production, or just create a blockade if needed be because they know who placed in an order.[/color:ts97ffk8]
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:34 am

Re: Business Regs

None it makes sense Atlantis, I'm just gonna forget about it.
Thank You for your time.
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:57 pm

Re: Business Regs

I'm just going to insert my comments in answer to your questions to the other players. You talk about people getting hung up on the "game mechanics" and not the way people RP stuff. I say the only reason most people want to own a business on JvS isn't because they like corporate RP (I said [i:2bm693dz][b:2bm693dz]most[/b:2bm693dz][/i:2bm693dz], not [b:2bm693dz][i:2bm693dz]all[/i:2bm693dz][/b:2bm693dz]), but because they want these designs and those designs and these credits and those credits to provide context and legitimacy to other RPs (ie they can point to Rendilli Star Drives and say "See, my character owns that company so he/she can legitimately have X, Y, and Z" when the acquirement of his/her resources are called into question). In essence, using the businesses to fufill the requirements of the "game mechanics" of the site (in as far as the NL go and the common way things are done go).

Personally, I have enjoyed the corporate RP I did with Sump Drive Yards, DeathTech Industries and Offworld Mining Corporation. I took time to RP money laundering, corporate espionage (once even hiring a sabatoge team to damage and cripple competitors' shipyards) and R&D with sucesses and setbacks.

But I also used my businesses to filter money and resources to my player/faction. So I can see the appeal of both sides of the coin, so to speak.

That being said, below are my comments regarding your points Jay.
[quote="Atlantis Vyridian":2bm693dz][color=#00BFFF:2bm693dz]Full creative control over the way the business is RPed? In which aspects really? Over the fact that they can engineer this type of ship?[/color:2bm693dz]
[color=#FFFF00:2bm693dz][b:2bm693dz]They exclusively are the ones to write the business as it is run and they don't have to abide by any decisions besides "canon companies must be open to selling to anyone"[/b:2bm693dz][/color:2bm693dz]

[color=#00BFFF:2bm693dz]Why stopping yourself there when you very well could influence certain parts of production? Just an idea. You can influence the finishing touches once those spaceships are done being constructed.[/color:2bm693dz]
[color=#FFFF00:2bm693dz][b:2bm693dz]No, you couldn't. Why? Because we aren't allowed to mess with the "canon state of the businesses". Any attempts to mess with the company besides stuff that doesn't really have any true bearing on the company's day-to-day or business model would more than likely be met with vicious opposition from both the "CEO 50% owner" as well as the PGC because it would be messing with the way they want to run the company or RP the company.[/b:2bm693dz][/color:2bm693dz]

[color=#00BFFF:2bm693dz]Is this what it is all really about? Being able to collect that other 50% because you feel that even as a planetary controller with perhaps not even RPing (or helping) that business jointly with the one that has registered it.[/color:2bm693dz]
[color=#FFFF00:2bm693dz][b:2bm693dz]Forgive me, but I think the point about the 50% share being erronious verbage was in the fact the "other 50% owner" doesn't have equal say in what happens to the company. Does that make sense? You can suggest things all you want, and you can say that "_____ is what you should do with this situation" but the RPer and his/her character doesn't actually have a say in the way things are done or handled beyond suggestion. In the end, the CEO 50% owner (registered owner) decides what happens.[/b:2bm693dz][/color:2bm693dz]

[color=#00BFFF:2bm693dz]They are not the only ones benefiting from designs from said company because again like I have said, everyone and anyone can order there and benefiting from those designs by getting the craft that way.[/color:2bm693dz]
[color=#FFFF00:2bm693dz][b:2bm693dz]Only insomuch as to have actually paid for the craft. But on this note I have a question: In the interest of business RP -- Say I have a competitor shipyard where I want to copy the success of Incom's X-wing for instance. Would it be feasable to purchase a mass quantity of X-Wings and RP the proper dismantling of the gear/ships/ect and learn how they tick. Then do our best to replicate the successful features of the X-Wing and add some systems of our own? In a way this is reverse engineering but in a way it isn't because we aren't trying to replicate the craft as verbatim as possible but rather trying to copy the successful features and improve on the less-successful features.[/b:2bm693dz][/color:2bm693dz]

[color=#00BFFF:2bm693dz]The moment they sell their shares, their 50% they give all of their rights. What I see there is a potential RP, the negotiation it entails, and all that I see here is people staying on the game mechanics and not trying to creatively find a way to influence this or that production, or just create a blockade if needed be because they know who placed in an order.[/color:2bm693dz][color=#FFFF00:2bm693dz][b:2bm693dz]Forgive me if I seem pessimistic, but I'm about 99.95% sure that businesses will fall into abandonment rather than the owner RPing selling their shares to the planetary holder. So I don't see the reality of that possibility.[/b:2bm693dz][/color:2bm693dz][/quote:2bm693dz]

In the interest of true business RP I would personally like to have the chance to have a business, fund an espionage mission of stealing plans or designs, damage the competition ect. What I think would be equally engaging is being able to do the aforementioned "reverse-engineering/reimagining" RP.

But I just know I'm gonna get shot down on those.
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Business Regs

Excuse me... Could someone please clearly and concisely answer this questions: "Can planetary owners claim production rights and use the business owner's facilities to construct vehicles, vessels, armor etc?"

I ask this, because yes, I am involved in the attack on Lianna. Our assault stems from an IC desire by Imperial esque factions to claim command of Sienar Fleet Systems a historically pro-Imperial Company. IC we believe it is our right, and in the nature of IC motivation, actions and RP we are assaulting the planet Lianna in order to take control of those facilities. Now, I could be wrong but the general vibe I am getting here is even if we beat Taung, take the planet etc. He will still get 100% of production rights...

Now I understand the idea that "it doesn't matter who controls a company you can still get the ships you want" I understand that from an OOC perspective, I don't like it, but I understand it. But I keep running into the same problem, that if we are leaning to the idea of as close to canon as possible in everything we do then Imperials should own Imperial companies.

and from an IC perspective it makes no sense for us overlords of the Universe to go through a middle man.

In my opinion Businesses should be highly sought after commidities and there should be ramifications for losing control of the world in which your business is on. Now I don't say that just because I am attacking Lianna and would like Sienar, I am saying it because unless there is another alternative, it would appear that as soon as one registers his or her business they have full control of it and can never lose it, depriving other players of the prestige and IC power of controlling them. (I know businesses can fall into abandonment but I do not feel as if that should be the only way to lose a business)
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:01 pm

Re: Business Regs

[quote="Gabriel Solomon":213j5t7q]Excuse me... Could someone please clearly and concisely answer this questions: "Can planetary owners claim production rights and use the business owner's facilities to construct vehicles, vessels, armor etc?"[/quote:213j5t7q]

I may not be a councilor, but I am all but positive the answer is a resounding "no" based on the discussions taking place in this thread and others.

The business is a separate entity from the planet it operates on. If you take "control" of a planet from another player, therefore, you do not "get" the businesses that operate on the world. You gain 50% of the profits of any businesses that operate on the world you "took control" over. You do not gain any production rights or access to the facilities of those same businesses or to any of their product designs.

I don't own or have any interest in owning a business, so I'll let the councilors address your thoughts on why the current rules don't appeal to you or other like minded players ;p
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:14 pm

Re: Business Regs

[quote="Neassa Or'dinii":2vjy2eov] You gain 50% of the profits of any businesses that operate on the world you "took control" over. You do not gain any production rights or access to the facilities of those same businesses or to any of their product designs.[/quote:2vjy2eov]

Except you don't even get 50% profits.


[quote="Atlantis Vyridian":2vjy2eov][color=#00BFFF:2vjy2eov]Those 50% will never go to the "planetary controller" so to speak, they will vanish into thin air, it is for the population (NPC) those 50% are forms of taxes and tariffs for being there on their soil. It was never meant to be for factions or the planetary controller per se.[/color:2vjy2eov][/quote:2vjy2eov]

Also, I'm [b:2vjy2eov][i:2vjy2eov]VERY[/i:2vjy2eov][/b:2vjy2eov] interested in having my points/questions/concerns addressed too so please don't forget my previous post.
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Post Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: Business Regs

I'm just going to insert my comments in answer to your questions to the other players. You talk about people getting hung up on the "game mechanics" and not the way people RP stuff. I say the only reason most people want to own a business on JvS isn't because they like corporate RP (I said [i:41bxr1g8][b:41bxr1g8]most[/b:41bxr1g8][/i:41bxr1g8], not [b:41bxr1g8][i:41bxr1g8]all[/i:41bxr1g8][/b:41bxr1g8]), but because they want these designs and those designs and these credits and those credits to provide context and legitimacy to other RPs (ie they can point to Rendilli Star Drives and say "See, my character owns that company so he/she can legitimately have X, Y, and Z" when the acquirement of his/her resources are called into question). In essence, using the businesses to fufill the requirements of the "game mechanics" of the site (in as far as the NL go and the common way things are done go).

Personally, I have enjoyed the corporate RP I did with Sump Drive Yards, DeathTech Industries and Offworld Mining Corporation. I took time to RP money laundering, corporate espionage (once even hiring a sabatoge team to damage and cripple competitors' shipyards) and R&D with sucesses and setbacks.

But I also used my businesses to filter money and resources to my player/faction. So I can see the appeal of both sides of the coin, so to speak.

That being said, below are my comments regarding your points Jay.
[quote="Atlantis Vyridian":41bxr1g8][color=#00BFFF:41bxr1g8]Full creative control over the way the business is RPed? In which aspects really? Over the fact that they can engineer this type of ship?[/color:41bxr1g8]
[color=#FFFF00:41bxr1g8][b:41bxr1g8]They exclusively are the ones to write the business as it is run and they don't have to abide by any decisions besides "canon companies must be open to selling to anyone"[/b:41bxr1g8][/color:41bxr1g8]

[color=#00BFFF:41bxr1g8]Why stopping yourself there when you very well could influence certain parts of production? Just an idea. You can influence the finishing touches once those spaceships are done being constructed.[/color:41bxr1g8]
[color=#FFFF00:41bxr1g8][b:41bxr1g8]No, you couldn't. Why? Because we aren't allowed to mess with the "canon state of the businesses". Any attempts to mess with the company besides stuff that doesn't really have any true bearing on the company's day-to-day or business model would more than likely be met with vicious opposition from both the "CEO 50% owner" as well as the PGC because it would be messing with the way they want to run the company or RP the company.[/b:41bxr1g8][/color:41bxr1g8]

[color=#00BFFF:41bxr1g8]Is this what it is all really about? Being able to collect that other 50% because you feel that even as a planetary controller with perhaps not even RPing (or helping) that business jointly with the one that has registered it.[/color:41bxr1g8]
[color=#FFFF00:41bxr1g8][b:41bxr1g8]Forgive me, but I think the point about the 50% share being erronious verbage was in the fact the "other 50% owner" doesn't have equal say in what happens to the company. Does that make sense? You can suggest things all you want, and you can say that "_____ is what you should do with this situation" but the RPer and his/her character doesn't actually have a say in the way things are done or handled beyond suggestion. In the end, the CEO 50% owner (registered owner) decides what happens.[/b:41bxr1g8][/color:41bxr1g8]

[color=#00BFFF:41bxr1g8]They are not the only ones benefiting from designs from said company because again like I have said, everyone and anyone can order there and benefiting from those designs by getting the craft that way.[/color:41bxr1g8]
[color=#FFFF00:41bxr1g8][b:41bxr1g8]Only insomuch as to have actually paid for the craft. But on this note I have a question: In the interest of business RP -- Say I have a competitor shipyard where I want to copy the success of Incom's X-wing for instance. Would it be feasable to purchase a mass quantity of X-Wings and RP the proper dismantling of the gear/ships/ect and learn how they tick. Then do our best to replicate the successful features of the X-Wing and add some systems of our own? In a way this is reverse engineering but in a way it isn't because we aren't trying to replicate the craft as verbatim as possible but rather trying to copy the successful features and improve on the less-successful features.[/b:41bxr1g8][/color:41bxr1g8]

[color=#00BFFF:41bxr1g8]The moment they sell their shares, their 50% they give all of their rights. What I see there is a potential RP, the negotiation it entails, and all that I see here is people staying on the game mechanics and not trying to creatively find a way to influence this or that production, or just create a blockade if needed be because they know who placed in an order.[/color:41bxr1g8][color=#FFFF00:41bxr1g8][b:41bxr1g8]Forgive me if I seem pessimistic, but I'm about 99.95% sure that businesses will fall into abandonment rather than the owner RPing selling their shares to the planetary holder. So I don't see the reality of that possibility.[/b:41bxr1g8][/color:41bxr1g8][/quote:41bxr1g8]

In the interest of true business RP I would personally like to have the chance to have a business, fund an espionage mission of stealing plans or designs, damage the competition ect. What I think would be equally engaging is being able to do the aforementioned "reverse-engineering/reimagining" RP.


[color=#FF0000:41bxr1g8][b:41bxr1g8][i:41bxr1g8]Any councilors please feel free to answer, this isn't specifically for Atlantis.[/i:41bxr1g8][/b:41bxr1g8][/color:41bxr1g8]
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