Information: The new forums are now open: http://boards.jedivsith.com. We've disabled all posting here on the old forum, but you can view everything.

Pardon the Interruption...


User avatar

Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator

Posts: 950

Affiliation:

Post Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:59 pm

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

So if you are going to be fine anyway, why write all that? Soap boxing?

Anyway, this is seriously getting out of hand here people. Lets all just stop and realise a few things here.

This change is a major and it is having some birthing issues. I for one foresaw that happening as its the way of life, but perhaps some of you live perfect lives where everything just clicks. Nothing rolls out smooth first time and there will always be issues to be ironed out. Does that mean the Councillors and the Whills are not going to fix things if there are issues? No. Of course we will fix it. Just takes a bit of time and perhaps a bit of patience.

The goal of the merging of the Council was to streamline a lot of things and get back to a more RP driven environment, but perhaps some of that has been lost in the process. But that does not mean we wont get to where we want it to be. Just means it will take us a little longer to get there. I for one will apologize for any issues that are currently being dealt with. Though I firmly believe that we will get through it and I know that several of us are already working on possible ideas that might rectify some of the issues.

I understand there are concerns and questions and that not all of you will be happy with how things are going. But its a fact of life we cannot please everyone. No matter what we do. These changes were discussed amongst the Whills as something that needed to happen. We also spoke to the High Councillors about it. We are more than willing to stand by our decision and if our idea fails miserably then I give everyone permission to point fingers at us and tell us how we should have done it better. But at least give it a chance first. Let it get up and running and get the kinks sorted out first before that happens.

If you see an issue then by all means bring it forward and discuss it. But keep it polite and constructive. Post along the lines of ''GREPC lost it way a long time ago etc...' without anything to actually either support the claim or a solution to the issue does not accomplish much. Just takes up lines of writing on a screen.

If anyone here feels for whatever reason the Councillors are not listening or are not replying with the respect and courtesy that they should, then please by all means, PM me personally and I will look into the issue. But keep in mind that its a two way street. Don├óÔé¼Ôäót be expecting patience and respect and courtesy when you are being a mouthy choobies. It Sithspit me so it will probably Sithspit them.

For those of you who have obviously sat down and thought about the issue and actually wrote articulate and well thought out posts, if they be of issues or solutions, I thank you. We are only going to get through this together and your input is noted.

The Lix
User avatar

Posts: 571

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/GREEN.png[/img]

Post Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:19 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

If I'm wrong, then I apologize, but from what I can tell, the issue here isn't that the GRPC and GEC have merged. I thank you for the helpful explanation on that side of the subject Felix, but I don't really think it was entirely relevent to this issue, again if I'm wrong then I apologize.

From all that I've read, it's not the merge that's the problem (personally I'm all for it) but they way they've gone about implementing new changes to the system.

Anyway, I've already said my bit on that part of the subject.

I hope this situation gets resolved soon, I'm more than happy to help if it can speed things up, and I hope all of you have a nice day.

*Bows to everyone in the room before heading off to the nearest bar that sells any sort of cider*
User avatar

Posts: 1055

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/BLUE.png[/img]

Post Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:01 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Aye, Kirus is right. Ladies and gentlemen I don't have anything against you. You councillors and Whills you do your job as best you can and I respect that. I guess what it comes down to is my frustration that our councilors and Whills, many of them being the strongest writers on the site are enacting a policy that works for them, it fits their vision for the site where everything is written beautifully and thoroughly and such... But that, it doesn't work for me. I am not a particurally good writer, not when it.comes.to.making novel length, detailed posts for my business, I don't think I'm a strong enough for that. So, putting aside my disgust and disappointment that the banking system has been taken away and now businesses will be under constant inspection by councilors, my problem is this... This is where my fear comes from and why I've been so verbal about this. I. Am.deathly scared that this site is becoming elitist in writing ability and style. You say that you want businesses to be Better written, that send to me that you are dictating what writing is ''good'' or 'bad' and that isn't write... I feel like I can't compete on the site anymore. My friends.we've ally felt the crush as the quality of writing.has increased and spontaneous rp has decreases. heRd th we've ally heard the complaints that this site has become more of a writing site than a fun experience... So I am scared of the future and Idk how long fast paced characters like me will last. The GEC was one of the lash bastions of fast paced,smaller post rp and own iris gone. I wrote this off my phone, sorry. THIS isn't the best worded speech but I - am restricted by my phone. I hope that others will read this and feel what I feel and know that this is why I care, because it seems like they are telling how to write
User avatar

Retired Master Moderator
Retired Master Moderator

Posts: 2844

Affiliation:

Post Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:15 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Friend,

Posts do not need to be lengthy, they just need to be descriptive, and under no circumstances are your business posts going to be under constant or even regular inspection. If that happens to you, you have the right to bring it to the Council of the Whills. The GRPEC is simply the governing body if problems are brought forward, they are authorized to resolve them. Also, Councilors are there to serve as people who can give you advice and serve you, the player, if you might need some assistance.

The GRPEC is not...I repeat...is not going to be a "Big Brother" institution. The Whills are not going to allow that. It is exactly as the GRPC was, it just simply has economic role play tied into it.
User avatar

Posts: 1422

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/GREEN.png[/img]

Post Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:54 pm

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

[quote="Whill Felix":13l5matq]So if you are going to be fine anyway, why write all that? Soap boxing?[/quote:13l5matq]

I honestly take offense to that; I write because I care about the site. Even if I AM going to be fine, it would be irresponsible and ultimately uncaring to not say anything. If the concerns of a user are so beneath someone of higher circles, that's quite sad indeed.
User avatar

Retired Master Moderator
Retired Master Moderator

Posts: 2844

Affiliation:

Post Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:01 pm

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Friend,

Let's try to focus on a joint solution rather than picking each other apart. We all care about this site. Whill, HC, Councilor, Player - all of us. We are all here to work together and make this site as much fun, for as many people, as humanly possible.

We are working on more edits and revisions to the GRPEC. Neither the Whills nor the HCs of the Council in question ever thought for one second that everything would be smooth sailing from the get go but, and I know I speak for the Whills as a collective, we knew that we could all knock our heads together and figure something out regardless of your status and rank on this site. At the end of the day we are *all* writers here and I think most of you will like the solutions we have coming down the pipe to be released in the next 2 - 3 days here.
User avatar

Posts: 1055

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/BLUE.png[/img]

Post Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:23 pm

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Well Zauriel 'speaker for all the Whills' this is a major issue that Eralam is talking about, it's the reason he made this thread to talk to the While who are supposed to be the last bastion of protection for the masses. He posted this so that the Whills could be made aware of legitimate complaints so that the Whills could look upon this objectively and as an unaffiliated third.party. However you prove the Whills are not an unbiased third party, you are personally invested in this and now we have no one to listen to us and no one who can look at this and consider the effect it has on us.

And yeah the GRPEC is telling us how to write... By holding us to their standards and saying 'not enough description. We can write more so you should and if you don't we will punish your.business and.your faction
User avatar

Retired High Councilor
Retired High Councilor

Posts: 5671

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/RED.png[/img]

Post Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

First thing to note -- As Zau said, we're not going to be a Big Brother institution. There seems to be this fear that we're suddenly going to ask you to write the most gripping fiction ever seen just to justify your earnings. We're not. Who among us has that kind of time and energy to spare to check all that on every RP? I know I don't. For a start, it'd take for-ever-er to review everything posted business wise in that level of detail, and that's a lot of work for a bunch of volunteers. We won't step in and get harsh on people unless we have real reason to believe there's a true problem.

Second thing to note is that the level for "good" RP isn't going to be asking the world. We're not looking for you to be the next wookiee or Tolkien or Rowling or Zahn. We just want to get away from the habit of copy/pasting for the purpose of business acquisitions -- I remember someone bringing to my attention back before Christmas, a particular hour on a particular day when every region (Deep Core, Core, Inner Rim, etc) had the same person as the last poster on that region. And every post that person had made was nearly identical to every other post. We're talking the same post, save for a few tiny, minor edits - the name of the planet and the number of credits - on over a dozen worlds. And the question put to me was "in what way is this positive RP?"

Truth is, it wasn't. That's not RP, it's Spam. No one but the poster in question got anything from it, and all the poster got was an imaginary increase in the imaginary balance of an imaginary bank account.

All we are looking for in the posts is a reasonable effort to RP. Character interactions, a little bit of creative writing, something that develops the RP forward more than simply increasing a number from 10% to 20% to 30% every couple of days, something like that. Write something different each time, throw in a bit of character perspective maybe - PC, NPC, unnamed mook, whoever - that's it. It's no more than is required to maintain a Silver Badge on your planet for RP. That really is it. Anyone here who thinks they can't maintain the standard is definitely selling themselves short, because I've seen all of you RP somewhere or the other and I know all of you can handle it. We're not asking anything more of you for your businesses than you have to do to justify most other things on JvS - it's the same as learning a rare Force Power, or forging a weapon, or, heck, proving that your character didn't simply fall over and stab himself in the face in a duel. Standard stuff that we can all do.

On top of that, the credits aren't destroyed forever and ever. IC speaking, if your character made his millions under the old system, he can still be a millionaire. The only place it makes any difference is OOC, and ultimately, OOC, why care? It's not like anyone really cares that much, and it's not like anyone was priced out of anything before anyway - it took a few weeks, maybe a month on the outside, to acquire enough wealth to buy anything with the way things worked in the old system, if that's what you really wanted. Three weeks of deliberate RP, and you could buy anything you wanted. Poor Jay and the Councillors of the GEC would spend hours, days on end, just trying to catch up with the audits and stuff, and the ultimate question was; why? What real purpose did it serve? How did it really help improve RP?



The ultimate idea of the new system was to make things simpler. That may have erred in process of coming up with a system that covers all the bases, and we, and the Whills, will work on simplifying things as we need to - you just have to give us the time to do so. But this far from stifles your RP, saying that it does is a fallacy and entirely unimaginative. The opposite is true - you no longer have to worry about providing X moneys and Y bank accounts any more, unless you're a business. And those businesses are no longer going to have to worry about what the price of this and that and t'other is anymore. That's all going to be a simple set of base line figures. You can concentrate on the stories and the characters and the interactions, and forget all about spending hours with spreadsheets and calculators and all that. It's simply bringing businesses on JvS in line with the rest of JvS -- where the benefit comes from writing something, not from amassing a pointless set of numbers on a pointless thread that only you and the schmo who's job it is to check your numbers will ever look at anyway.

On a text-based, play-by-post RP site? That seems to make sense to me.

Maybe I'm just crazy.
User avatar

Administrator
Administrator

Posts: 2552

Affiliation:

Post Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:33 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Friends,

I would like to thank everyone who has contriuted their thoughts and concerns on both this thread, and on the other that relates to the GRPEC. Your input is both important and valuable to us, and we will be taking it into account. Even the angry feedback ;)

I would also like to apologise to all of you. We did not expect this process to go entirely smoothly, but we certainly did not expect the road to be this rocky. The reason for the merger is sound, but the process we used to go about it could have been improved. I think much of the blame falls on my shoulders for this. There has been some level of disconnect between the Whills, Councils and players in this regard, but I believe we are now firmly in the process of making up for this, and I truly hope that when you see the revisions based on player feedback, you will be alot more happy with the result.

Our goal is, and always has been, to help the High Councilors and Councilors develop the best Council they can for the players; to clearly define its scope such that it is acceptable to the player base; and to establish simple easy-to-follow yet hard-to abuse rules for those in the Player's Guild. Those players who choose not to be members of the Player's Guild will still be held to the Natural Laws, and overseen by the Council of the Whills as necessary.

In the coming days, you will see a clearly written mandate for the GRPEC and for the Player's Guild, a FAQ that should help clarify many of your concerns, and a new draft of an economic model that focuses on roleplaying with as few restrictions as possible, but the maintenance of reasonable controls for oversight.

We will of course continue to listen to and take player queries, concerns and suggestions under advisement.

If you want clarification on anything in this post, please feel free to ask.

Yours truly,
Whill Odin
User avatar

Administrator
Administrator

Posts: 2552

Affiliation:

Post Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:36 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

As an addendum, I'd like to add that I fully support Dav's post. What a well written explanation.

I'd also like to point out that it would be unfair to expect the Whills to not be personally invested in this, when you consider the amount of time we put into this site, just as you all are personally invested, because you love the site as much as we do.

I also think it would be unfair to ask that none of the Whills ever RP just so that we can maintain a complete lack of bias. Not all of us do RP, but we love this site and I'd hate to think players didn't want us to have that option, if we so choose.
User avatar

Retired Master Moderator
Retired Master Moderator

Posts: 2844

Affiliation:

Post Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:41 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

As do I. An excellent post indeed and it has my full support as well. Everyone should read that post by High Councilor Man'Sell carefully.
User avatar

Retired Master Moderator
Retired Master Moderator

Posts: 2844

Affiliation:

Post Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:32 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

User avatar

Galactic Battle Arena Judge
Galactic Battle Arena Judge

Posts: 1254

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/BLUE.png[/img]

Post Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:26 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

I thank you for your most generous pardon ex/step/howthehelldoesthetenseworkifyouwereadoptedafterIleft-brother.

You might be pleased to note that I will no longer be bothering the Whills or the GRPEC with such issues, as I believe there to be more efficient ways of handling things. I fear we've all dug ourselves into a situation where we keep bashing our heads against the wall, safe in the knowledge that it will feel positively delightful to stop. Now that there is an Eralam shaped dent in the bulkhead, that time is here.

I trust that from here on out we'll all carry on in the manner that we feel to be best for the site.
User avatar

Posts: 761

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/BLUE.png[/img]

Post Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

[quote:2uskgcce]The canon business must deal primarily in its canon products, but some leeway may be taken with regards to extended product lines or modifications.[/quote:2uskgcce]

So if I post the product listing for Chandril Tech (and asscociated Vangaard Industries (which I still have to register, but it shows the clear economical build up of CHandril Tech)) would you judge if the extended product lines are within the certain modifications?
User avatar

Retired High Councilor
Retired High Councilor

Posts: 5671

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/RED.png[/img]

Post Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:15 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

They have to be closely related to the Canon products. We're talking minor/moderate extensions to the product line, products that are related to but perhaps an expansion on the standard Canon Products. Extending it in leaps and bounds beyond what the Canon company is known for producing is a similar thing to making massive lasting changes to a Canon Location, which is forbidden. It's like if Thyferra's Bacta Corps started turning out Starships and Blaster Pistols... well... then they stop having the unique qualities of their canon business and become just one more miscellaneous company who happen to also sometimes produce Bacta.
User avatar

Administrator
Administrator

Posts: 2552

Affiliation:

Post Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:21 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Dav states it aptly.
User avatar

Posts: 761

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/BLUE.png[/img]

Post Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Chandril Tech produces the following products. The Wolf class AUV was devoloped along with Vangaard Technicians and design teams, and those same teams are eventually working on a Ravens Hover Tank, and a Ravens Gunship. THe Cyduct E-23 Boooster is a product produced by Selesin Medical Electronics, which I ended up RP'ing a merger with Chandril Tech, before dismissing the company thanks to the new GEC rules at the time, yet because of the RP I still sell them and RP with NPC's of Selesin from time to time. Chandril Tech will be expanding to more light vehicles and heavier vehicles to support the Chandril Ravens PSC, as well as providing medical supplies to support the brand new Chandrillan Medical Facility.

[quote:1ca5htog][u:1ca5htog]Chandril Tech[/u:1ca5htog]

Med Pack - 50 Credits
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Medpac

Med Kit - 200 Credits
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Medkit

Datadagger - 500 Credits
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Datadagger

Cyduct E-23 Booster - 1,250 Credits = Selesin Medical Electronics
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cyduct_E-23_Booster

Chandrillian Wolf class Armored Utility Vehicle - 140,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1610&t=28746&p=1838768#p1838768[/quote:1ca5htog]

Vangaard Industries (again yet to register) has one canon product the Pathfinder Scout Vessel. The company was registered to two previous owners on JvS, who produced designs for the company, some of which seem based around the canon vessel and it's shielding system. Their design team has helped CHandril Tech build a modest vehicle production line, as well as to streamline their production lines, yet I've yet to use them to produce any of their Assault Starfighters or their Star Destroyers. It's my belief that I doubt I could produce either at the current time frame, but Xeonon Fey-Solomon and I have to work on getting a facility able to do that or expanding the busisnes further to accomodate it. Problems being acquiring minerals and parts, which I've also started work on a possible CEC subcontracting. Vangaard doesn't really need to expand other than providing technical information to Chandril Tech.

[quote:1ca5htog][u:1ca5htog]Vangaard Industries[/u:1ca5htog]
Canis class Heavy Pistol - 2,500 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1322&t=13809

Lupus class Machine Pistol - 3,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1322&t=13643

Fenris Assault Shield - 15,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1322&t=13865

Gray Wolf class Jumpsuit - 50,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1323&t=13759

Gray Wolf Gene Therapy - 100,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1326&t=13878

Vangaard Pathfinder Scout Vessel - 200,000 Credits
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pathfinder

Gray Wolf Assault Armor - 250,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1323&t=13629

Fenris class Assault Starfighter - 350,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1841&t=13422

Gray Wolf class Shield Generators - 1,000,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1326&t=15122

Canis class Power Planet - 15,000,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1326&t=13641

Lupus class Star Destroyer - 500,000,000 Credits
viewtopic.php?f=1845&t=13421[/quote:1ca5htog]

Over all the two companies combined experiances allow both of the companies to expand similar to their original roles yet to continue providing the same material they have in the past. I've worked hard on all these RP's to get this far, and sadly they are some of my better postings despite all the mistakes made.
User avatar

Retired High Councilor
Retired High Councilor

Posts: 5671

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/RED.png[/img]

Post Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:18 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Vehicles would be where I think you've deviated too far from the canon Chandril Tech's remit, personally - and the power plant that goes with them. Heavy-grade Capital Ships definitely so. I would say that the armours, the personal weapons, are perhaps a little closer to it, and perhaps more forgiveable, but definitely not what I would normally associate with Chandrila canonically speaking. A world so infused with politics and cloak-and-dagger stuff isn't one I'd see as a producer of heavy arms - I'd think more subtle things, like concealable weapons, body armour worn under normal clothes, things like that, are more in line with Canon.

This is a discussion we should really be having in the Council Player's area, though, and one that the other Councillors who are more knowledgeable on the Canon Businesses should look into, but for me personally, I'm tentative at best about a lot of that non-canon product line.
User avatar

Posts: 761

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/BLUE.png[/img]

Post Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

Chandrilla is less cloak and dagger and more politics: but I'm asking on the sake of ChandrilTech not Vangaard Industries. The vehicles came in line with the RP of the Chandril Ravens PSC, a Private Security Company derived from ChandrilTech and the Chandrillian Militia Forces, along the lines of military contractors and the Iraqi and Afghani wars. I'm trying to find a way to put a shipyard over Chandrilla but I've yet to find something. At least the power plants I can reuse with civilian applications. Down the line I'd like to switch from the heavier armor to lighter stuff, with something like those as well.

The original reason I put it in this forum area (it was it's own thread) is because several councilors told me "Tough, deal with it", and told me I couldn't do ANY expanding which meant all my previous RP was void, and like I've said I worked hard to get even this far.
User avatar

Retired High Councilor
Retired High Councilor

Posts: 5671

Affiliation:

Traffic Light: [img]http://www.jedivsith.com/images/RED.png[/img]

Post Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:06 am

Re: Pardon the Interruption...

The point is not where you've developed your RP thusfar, but where the Canon product lines lie. JvS has often veered wildly away from Star Wars canon tech, and in some places, it's still way out of sync - part of the reason the Patent Office closed in the first place was because of this. The move by the GRPEC - under Whill supervision - to bring the Canon Businesses back to their Canon worlds and the Canon technology they produced, is in an effort to bring JvS back to what it should be - a Star Wars RP. That does mean that some of the past RP by some people may now be no-longer valid. It doesn't make it void, it doesn't make it any less important to your character's personal development and the experiences they have undergone, it just means the "stuff" is no longer at hand. At the end of the day, that's all it is. Stuff. Objects that can be replaced. Fictional, imaginary objects that can be replaced. There's a good chance most of the "stuff" will be thrown out when the new Patent Office launches anyway - yes, I know, when is still a mystery - , as (as I understand it) all previous patents will need to be re-patented and a fair bit of the older Patent Office stuff won't pass without being seriously scaled back.

"Tough, deal with it" might be a little harsh. I would hope that the Councillors are a little more diplomatic than that. But in essence, yes, your old RP with Chandril Tech doesn't entitle you to those extended product lines now, because firstly your old RP took Chandril Tech too far from it's Canon standing, and secondly, the rule for one is the rule for all - this is a near complete reset of the Businesses, in order to simplify, to make them more accessible, and to drag the site's Economics out of an outdated system that is simply holding it back. Yes. That's all still a work in progress, still being tweaked on the how side of things, but it is the goal. You can, however, - and this is what I suggest you do - apply to register a new, non-canon business, based on or around Chandrila, and transfer all that other, shiny tech to the new business. Run both.

Ships are outside of Chandril Tech's remit by a longshot. They were known for their handheld sensor devices, and things in that ball park. Producing Ships would be a bit like Nokia or Motorola suddenly producing Jumbo Jets and Sports Cars - it wouldn't happen, because it's not what their businesses are any good at. Too much of a leap. The more I look at it, the more I'm a little unsure about almost the entire product line outside of those Canon Products at the top, but flexibility must be given to you in some fashion since Canon details are so lacking. Ships are well out of the question, though, by my estimations.
PreviousNext

Return to Archived Topics



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
Powered by phpBB